One thing you need to understand about me, my dear reader, is that I’ve never been all that close to my family. I had a pretty complicated upbringing: there were several marriages, separations, and divorces, all of which were sprinkled with the inevitable needs of multiple offspring; there were harsh words exchanged in front of children much too young to know the difference between love and desperation; most (worst?) of all, there was a sense of hopelessness that permeated the air of my youth. In the end, I thought the only thing I could do was flee so that I could one day breathe air that was pure and free. And so I did.
LAST NIGHT’S CALL
I got a call from my mom last night and all hell broke loose. I planned to have a conversation with her about the Plan sometime next year when things were rolling closer to fruition. But she called me last night with some questions that left me no choice but to spill the beans a little early. I didn’t quite mention the sale of the townhouse or getting rid of all my stuff. THAT might have given her a heart attack. But I did happen to mention that I would be leaving my job sometime next year. Here’s a little taste of what I was facing last night.
Jack is Inconsiderate
“Jack, what do you mean you are going to quit your job next year!??” Why didn’t you tell me about this before? How dare you keep things from me!? How dare you!”
Jack is Insane
“Who the fuck does that!? Are you insane!? Have you been to a doctor? Please tell me that you have been diagnosed with some sort of medical condition? Otherwise, who in their right mind would do such a thing. I mean, it’s crazy! How dare you!”
Jack is Selfish
“Why are you being so selfish!? Don’t you know that I will be retiring soon and the economy is going to shit? You need to think about what you will be doing to your family. How dare you!
Jack is Throwing His Life Away
“Have you thought about all the work you have put into your career? Think about all those nights studying for exams, all the money you spent to pay for school…all that sacrifice will be going down the drain if you do this! You are throwing your life away!! How dare you!”
DO I NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO…?
I kept my cool during the call. I always do. I think it has something to do with the need to maintain control in the face of uncontrollable anger and rage. I guess my childhood was good for something.
But the call did prompt some soul-searching. I mean, seriously:
*Do I not have the right to leave a job that I find unfulfilling?
*Do I not have the right to make decisions about my own life, even if, ultimately, I find that I need to take a different path?
*Do I not have the right to try and be happy the best way I know how?
Posts
4 days ago
50 comments:
Wowzers!!
First-- You have the right to do whatever you want with your life. Period.
Second-- I don't think your parents raised a dumb kid (of course your mother sounds like she thinks she did). You are intelligent enough to know when the hell to fix your life and not succumb to mainstream america's way of thinking (as in man = education = job = wife = children = work = retire = BORING)
Third-- Give it time, if she loves you, and you her, it'll work out in the end.
I've let down my parents before, most of us do in some way on our journey of growing and maturing. I let my parents down when I didn't follow THEIR predicted path for me (I left a private college, Pre-med, to watch my family grow... MAN did I piss off mom!!) But as she's matured and watched me, I think she understands that I'm going to do what I think is right and now she just accepts it :-) (Of course, little opinions are still given frequently...)
Sorry you had such a bad conversation last night.... hmmm.... you should have a nice cold beer :-)
Ouch.
If you need encouragement, and haven't heard about them yet, Retireearlylifestyle.com is about a couple who chucked lifestyle similar to yours while in their 30's and haven't looked back. They sold the nice house by the beach, etc, and now live for about $50 a day as worldwide perpetual travelers.
Miles,
= some of us have families that we love and commitments that we must pay for, even though you may call it boring. This is not a Mainstream America cultural way of thinking, the whole world and all of its' cultures have people that work, be it hunt and gather, go to office jobs, grow their own food, in order for them to provide for their families. This is does not = BORING. This = LIFE.
I am also a lawyer. My parents died young, but I have a judgemental sister and brother-in-law, and I have 3 children in their late teens and early 20s. A few years ago, I quit my job and moved to Europe to write - something I have always wanted to do. I live simply and support myself by teaching Legal English about 20 hours a week, and except for being so far from my sons in the US, I love everything about this. Yes, I have run into criticism, and yes sometimes it seems irresponsible even to me. The worst is that when my kids run into financial trouble, I can't help them. I do feel sad about that sometimes. But next to my kids, living this life of my own design is the most important thing in the world to me, and the people who love me totally understand that.
In your mother's reactions, I think there is a lot of fear. See if you can hear that instead of the criticism.
Jack is Inconsiderate
Jack is Insane
Jack is Selfish
Jack is Throwing His Life Away
lalalalalalalalalaaaaaa.
Okaaay. Add this to the list:
Jack has a mother who can be a meanie (and she goes WAY over the line).
Jack deserves to be happy.
Jack is not a child to be bossed around by selfish people.
Jack is going on an adventure and Mom will just have to deal with it!
"In the end, I thought the only thing I could do was flee so that I could one day breathe air that was pure and free. And so I did."
Sounds like you are still trying to flee! Otherwise you would know the answer to your questions. You would not need to ask us or get reassurance from us.
Still thinking about Mom here. Rrrmmm. I'm glad mine tell me when to shut up. I never thought I'd say that.
I had a thought here... have you found Malia online yet? She's a real neat woman. I do believe that Malia sometimes works for attorneys. I wonder if she would have ideas for your skills in your new life. Her websites: http://www.maliasrv.com/
http://maliasmiles.com/
Don't let it get to you, I've had that conversation so many times with my parents it's like water off a duck's back now. It's upsetting when the shit first hits the fan but you've got to remember in their own weird and wonderful way they are looking out for you. (Parents : can't live with them, can't live with them, right?)
I found it helped to point out:
1. Did they REALLY want me to end up like any of the partners at my firm - divorced, overweight, on the brink of a coronary or mental illness, never sees their kids, has a nice house but is always in the office, has lots of money but no time to spend it
2. If you've got it in you to get yourself a decent career in the first place they've got to trust you to make the right decisions for yourself. It's not a decision you're taking lightly.
3. It's not that hard to go back to the law even if you take a career break (this was more for my mother's benefit who was at this point hyperventilating)
Be calm, accept that your parents are a product of their generation, and do what you've got to do if you know it's going to make you a happier person.
(One day I might even listen to my own advice...!)
Good luck,
Jade
Yes, you do.
But "jerry critter" made a very interesting comment, too...
What a difficult conversation. So sorry to hear it. Unfortunately, I've found that I've experienced similar resistance from people I know (though not quite as extreme). The desire for status and money and power has a hold on most people in this society, and when you attempt to go against that grain you're going to get resistance, sometimes big resistance.
Also, in my own struggles with whether or not I have the "right" to do this or that, I often think of John Paul II's quote that "true freedom is not the ability to do what you want to do, but is instead having the ability to do what you ought to do." It helps me set everything else aside and just keep a laser focus on what I ought to be doing.
Ouch. But as anon said, I do hear fear in her words - for you and her - and that makes me sad for her.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Hopefully in your heart you know this - and just need to be reminded of it.
Miles to Go,
Thanks for the comments, particularly point #1. It sounds like you made your own choices and your parents eventually understood. That’s my hope with this issue, but I have a feeling it’s going to take some time. My mom is super traditional and definitely tied to the old mainstream paradigm Now where is that beer!!
Anonymous #1,
I actually checked out that website a while ago. Definitely thought-provoking! Thanks for the reference.
Anonymous #2,
I don’t think Miles to Go was putting down families providing for their families. I think her point was that there are certain expectations about what one does with one’s life and that these expectations are based on assumptions that are not always applicable to everyone. Some people absolutely provide for their families by going to office jobs. I just don’t think I should have to do only one thing and have a path laid out in order to live my life based on the expectations of society.
Anonymous #3,
You’ve had an interesting journey. How long have you lived in Europe? Sounds like you have attained a special kind of independence. Good for you! On financial trouble, expectations are always so skewed. Is it more expected that parents will take care of their own kids? Is it not more taboo for parents to rely on their own kids for help? Family is family, but is there not a limit to how much support you can bring before you start compromising your own happiness?
Jonna,
Thanks for the support! Your post is soft of how I feel instinctively about this whole thing, though I don’t think my mom is being selfish. I do agree with Anonymous #3 in thinking that there is a little bit of fear there on my mom’s part, most of all because she can’t quite understand my choices. Different generations. Different priorities.
Jerry,
That’s a very interesting comment, but not for the reasons you mention. I don’t really see a connection between striking out on my own away from my family and wanting to confirm that I am my own person. If I am still fleeing it is from an angry, rigid world-view that is unhealthy to my psyche. One additional clarification: I don’t think the questions in my post were to you or anyone in particular. They were rhetorical.
Jonna,
No, never heard of her before today. Was just on her site (did you see that she had a cancer scare?). Thanks for the tip!
Jade,
Yeah, I’ve had versions of this conversation with my mom over the years. She could never quite figure out where I was going, but there was a great deal of tension along the way. I turned out ok. Thanks for the tips. These are actually very law firm-specific= perfect!
Jolyn,
You have an interesting blog (and super cute kids!). Thanks for the comment. I actually left Jerry a comment above which you can see now.
Jennifer,
Hey, no worries. This is family stuff…it’s as old as time itself. And thanks for the JPII quote. Puts a whole different spin on this whole issue, doesn’t it? Gosh, now I have to think about it…
Elizabeth,
Thanks for the comment (as always!). I do know this. But it gets more complicated when you put family issues into the mix.
I think you already know the answer, Jack.
Your mum should be proud that she raised a boy who grew into an independent man able to make his own path in life. If she isn't then that's her problem - be proud of yourself :)
It sounds like you handled it well. It sounds a lot like my husband's family. The kind where you can do no right. I have begun practicing the KISS approach. Keep It Simple/Surface, Stupid.
I think the fact that you told you mom says you are serious, and will go through with your plan. Kudos to you!!
I've shocked my family a few times with my choices. They get over it. One thing I learned to do is not say anything unless I want to defend myself. I just do my thing and they find out when the time is right for me to tell.
I'm a tough cookie like you. It is good the world has people who don't stay in situations that make them miserable.
I have you listed as one of my favorite blogs! I love your stories.
Rhetorical! Hummmmmm! I missed that one -- along with a few other readers. I saw quite of few "yeses".
NO connection between striking out on your own and becoming (or wanting to confirm) your own person? Really?
Sharon,
Thanks. Definitely appreciate the comment.
Anonymous #4,
Maybe I need some more KISS in my life!
Heather,
Thanks! Yeah, in this instance it just could not be helped. I would have rather waited for a while and actually confronted her next year. The doing and just waiting for that phone call never works with her.
Jerry,
Yes, rhetorical. People who read a blog post are free to comment on that post and they are certainly free to comment on rhetorical questions therein. Just as blog posters are free to ask rhetorical questions in their posts.
As for the connection issue, I think we are splitting hairs. To physically leave one’s family and to want to know whether you have the power to control your own destiny are two separate endeavors. Their only connection, in my mind, is that one came sequentially before the other.
Fair enough! Point taken!
Eh, what matters is what you know, not how you logicise it.
Jack,
Just a thought from a guy that makes close to six figures working for a bank... We are in the same boat, money no longer makes us happy after working so much. Im only 36 and I have had enough. We are planning our escape now!
- Lone Gunman
Yes you do have the right,it is YOUR LIFE!
One thing I have seen with my homesteading, frugal, simple life is that most people don't understand it. Even make fun of it. But it is my choice, my life. And when the world goes to hell and changes forever. We will be ready and they will be the ones on our doorstep wanting our help. Who will be laughing then??!!??!!
Your mother's comments remind me of Hank Rearden's mother in Atlas Shrugged...
"there was a sense of hopelessness that permeated the air of my youth"
This really resonates with me. I have worked hard to overcome the sense of hopelessness and depression that lived through during my childhood- actually, I'm still working through all that, probably always will. I think thats why I had to make some very drastic changes in my life, otherwise I slip back into that hopeless, ever so familiar, rut.
I'm sorry that you had to endure that conversation with your mother. It seems no matter how old we are, no matter what life we are living, our parents still get to us. I hate to admit it but my parents opinion still matters to me. It drives me crazy that I can't shake it! I still make the choices that I have decided on and when they object I pretty much close the conversation down- but deep down I pine for their approval (ugh *hits head*damn it!!!) But then I think 'you know what, they've had their chance to live as they please and now it's my turn. My turn my life.
When I think of myself 50 years from now, I don't think I would regret any of the drastic changes I have made, or plan on making, but I would regret complacency.
hope all is well :-)
It is never to late to have a happy childhood. So they say.
Sounds like you had a toxic one. You can always go back to lawyering. But it sounds to me like you really need to get out there and find something that makes you happy.
My husband and I have a really toxic, poisonous family on his side, consisting of his sister and her sadly expanding family. If I wrote a novel about it no one would believe it.
When my husband decided to not join the corporate rat race , his father was disappointed. But now they are happily living with us in a house we built next door and we are protecting them from the rest of the family as best as we can given the guilt they get from their daughter. Her unhappy life is their fault, don'tchaknow. My side of the family is all gently dysfunctional and now having worse problems.
It occurs to me that the best treasure a child could have is a good family. Neither of us got it so we made our own. Us and the cats in the country in a house we built ourselves and our own little business.
Best wishes to you finding your way to be happy in this crazy world.
Jerry,
Again, just talking past each other. Just a matter of perspective.
Hobo stripper,
What I know is that there is a yes answer to all three questions posed in this post. :)
Lone Gunman,
Welcome to the party! I wish you luck; the trip can be turbulent and though I’ve yet to get to the end, I have a feeling it is going to be wonderful.
Carolyn,
Thanks for the comment. It is, in fact, your own prerogative. Just as it is my right to do what I want with my life.
Sixforsure,
You know, never read AS, but I’ve always been curious by objectivism. Are you big on it?
3 Moons,
This was such an interesting comment. Our parents had their chance to live. And now it is our turn to make our own choices. The question is whether we will do the same to our kids or whether we will step lightly as they make their own way through life.
Jack I think you are an inspiration...
Jack there should be more people in the world like you...
Jack my mother has slapped me, told me I'm a loser, shouted "no wonder he left you!"...I know she loves me, but deep down there are scars from her past too that I don't know about.
Jack you already know the answers to your questions... you also have 30, (YES THREE ZERO) comments from random strangers in the world who have probably never even met you and think you are fab.
Jack thanks for sharing your emotions, don't forget you are NEVER alone...
Jack keep the focus on your dream, it's a beautiful one...
emma
You've probably got more than enough comments here, but I have some common ground w/ you that might make it worth adding one more. I had great parents and a wonderful upbringing - except for too much religion. I disappointed my parents numerous times - dropping out of college, quitting officer school in military, marrying someone not my race, after going back to school and becoming a lawyer, quitting that to go into business.
However, I somehow learned early on that I had to do my own thing (can you tell I am a child of the '60s?) and they had to adjust. Not me. And you know what? They did. And for those who couldn't adjust, or were critical of my change in status (or "loss" in their minds) you just move on without them. There are more than enough people in the world who already approve or who you will meet in the future that will accept you for who you are now w/o knowing the previous history.
Good news: I now get along fine w/ my parents and all my siblings even though we are all on quite different paths, and differ politically and religiously. We all still love and tolerate / accept each other as the individuals we are. Your mom may not come to that point quickly, or at all, but you just have to love her but move on down your own path. Good luck w/ it! I'm sure it will work out. You have a good plan.
Please read a book I love.. Your Money or Your life by Joe Domenquez and Vicky Robinson.
I'm doing the opposite... I'm working MORE at 47 when I should simplify my life by selling my 2 family home and getting a condo for my 12 year old and me.......or renting downstairs apartment. I'm NOT sure why; just know that with my 24 year old son moving out and losing 600 a month when his child support stopped...that I want to stay put here... with a nyc mortgage way too high.
I was a SAHM for almost 20 years; and then bought out the house from my exhusband and work freelance and it seems like a challenge.. these last 6 years of building up work; and struggling in the OUTSIDE world.
I wrote a book and stopped writing it 10 months ago due to working too much; rising heating costs; etc. I'm so frugal as it is....that nothing much to cut back on but a bit here and there.
I've been reading websites to learn a bit here and there.....
I don't know I feel like my 12 year old has been living in this same block for 8 years and I don't want a stranger living downstairs...that it is some kind of obligation to not downsize; but come up with a way to make MORE MONEY but work less hours... so I'm taking that as a goal..if it does not work out in 6 months I'll get tenant or sell house and downsize.
I grew up in an insane home and been going to Al-Anon for a year now... another reason I love the challenge of working freelance; because I grew up afraid to do anything.
Life is a journey and we can keep changing... Enjoy your new life... it sounds like a new learning experience for you.
Hey Jack,
I am still keeping up with your journey, though I have also been rather busy of late with some other issues.
The parental issue; wow, I believe we all must confront that at some point. My parents have died and I am picking up the pieces.
But, I do recall some definitive moments in my relationship with them.
One, was thinking about how I would have handled a child when I was their age, as I had the 'luxury' of being single. I would have been a horrible parent, and much worse than anything I perceived from them, as I was selfish and self absorbed, and they ultimately were not. They were just young and enjoying life, and in retrospect, they tried their best despite any flaws which may have been there.
At some point your parents become colleagues, at some point they become like children who need your care. I actually envy you that your parents are still alive, because on the most basic level, the parent child relationship is one of the simplest on earth.
But you evidently do need healing in your emotional life with them. I pray you find it.
And I am waxing maudlin. I have some major issues to deal with in the coming weeks in my own simplification. Off to rest.
Buddy
Jack,
I am a mother.
All I want for my daughters is happiness.
Money does not equal Happiness.
I hope my daughters find what they are searching for one day.
I as a mother can only stand back and hope for the best.
I wish you all the best in your journey.
May your mother live to see you prove to her the point of life.
May you live to forgive your mother.
Jules.
god, what an interesting set of responses. my own 2 cents? you handled it really well. i am a mom, daughter in law, and daughter. while my own kids are still young, i know what it feels like to want the best for them, but i know that my being the one to know what is best for them is short lived. once they are 30-something and lawyers in DC, they are old enough to know what is best for them and it is my job to be supportive, loving, encouraging, and know that i have done my best to teach them what i know to be right and good. this is coming from someone who has been treated like a grown up and respected individual and as incompetent by various family members!
Hmmm. Kudos to you for handling it so well, and turning it into an opportunity to really examine your goals to see if they ring true.
Reading this post just reiterated what I've been thinking a lot lately; how lucky I was/am to have parents that, though far from perfect, have never tried to push their ideas of who I should become onto me. To tell the truth, I don't even know what their ideas of who I should have become are. Of course, that hasn't really made it any easier for me to figure it out, but at least I haven't had to struggle against their expectations. I only hope I can do the same with my kids.
Emma,
Thanks for your kind comments. I’m sorry to hear about your relationship with your mom, but I have a feeling there is something deep within our mothers that is very hurt by things that probably don’t have a lot to do with us. They are who they are and having to navigate some of that stuff is the price we have to pay to keep them in our lives.
Sf Kid,
All of that makes sense to me. My oldest sister once told me that if you don’t feel that you have a family go out and make one. There are plenty of people who care about me for who I am, and they are not even related to me. Glad to hear how things have turned out.
Betty,
Yup, already dead YMOYL. It’s one of the things that brought me to vol simpl in the first place. Wow, if you are indeed living in NYT under those conditions, that certainly makes things tough. I am actually renting a room in my house to someone…a way to pay the bills for sure.
Zuleme,
What makes things so complicated with your sister in law? It sounds like you created a life for yourself that makes sense to you and brings you joy. It’s where I want to be!
Buddy,
Thanks for following up. Always good to hear from you. When did your parents pass away? I guess they did what they could with what they got. It’s good you recognize that.
Jules,
Thanks for the comment. I will take all of this to heart.
Nea,
Thanks for the comment. I think we are probably in the same page. I sure hope you have/can repair any strains with those family members…
Amy,
Sounds like you have great parents. It’s not that my parents were horrible. It’s just that they are who they are and whatever that is is sometimes not what we need at certain points in our lives.
You're asking all the same questions we've asked ourselves so many times - but when you are adding children to the mix, the answers get even harder. But in the end, follow your heart and you'll deal with the questions.
I think the biggest part of your journey is over - making the decision. Someone wrote to me once and asked - "Yes, what you are doing is amazing, but the main question that's swimming in my head is - how do you make such a decision? How do you decide to go against everything society expects of you? How do you make that decision to march to your own drummer when everything - everything - around you is telling you you should go 'this way'?"
Hang in there. Honestly, the most difficult part of your journey is done.
Nancy (www.familyonbikes.org)
Nancy,
Thanks for the comment. Always nice to hear good words of encouragement. Although, I have a feeling naysayers have been more common in your own life given the adventures you have led. Been following your journey for a while and can't wait until you guys are finished. BTW, I'm an avid biker. Need to peruse your site some more, but would love to get some basic info for someone contemplating something similar. I may just start with biking across a single state and then maybe graduate to a whole two continents! :)
Hi Jack,
It's funny what gives people a little perspective. My dad died of a heart attack within 6 months of retiring - so when I told my mum I was quitting my job, she just saud "Well, you're old enough to make up your own mind." I may not have mentioned to her that I don't necessarily plan to go back...
By the way, if I was you I would keep the townhouse and rent it out if you can...
Good luck, but somehow I think you're going to quit that job a lot time before December 2009!
Lynne
Jack,
In my haste with the move, I somehow did not see this post. I am so sorry to hear about the call and her reaction. You absolutely have the right to be happy and do something that is fulfilling. We each have our purpose in life, and though I cannot spell my own out clearly, I have come to the realization that as much as I long to help others and the world, I can only do so if I help myself first. Many times parents try to live vicariously through their children and put pressure on their children, but they are being selfish. You have not burdened your family by making them pay for school. Whatever hardships you go through is your own, and you are not causing it on her. The only thing you have hurt is her pride because I am sure she loves to brag about her son who is a lawyer. It is great when parents are proud of you, but no approval from external sources will suffice if you do not approve of your decisions yourself. I am glad that you have found yourself, and I encourage you to stay centered on this path you see for yourself.
I just stumbled upon your blog. And I would like to say that I am proud of you for making the decision to make your life simpler. I really want to do that too, I just don't know where to start.
Some parents just don't want to let go. They want you to believe that you need them to "help" you make all your decisions. And when you don't ask them it ticks them off. So they launch into the "you are too young to make these decisions" mode and will use anything to get you to see things their way. That includes guilt, manipulation, making you feel stupid and wrong, and making you feel like they are the victim of you decision.
The truth is you are all grown up and can make great decisions. You are making the decisions that are best for you. And so long as you are not deliberately trying to hurt someone, which I don't think you are you are making the right decisions. What these "well meaning" parents don't understand is that you have put a lot of thought into your decision. the is obvious by the fact that you are still at your job, you didn't just walk out. You are planning for your future and figuring out who and what you want to be and what you want to have surrounding you.
It take a lot of courage to do what you are doing. Keep it up. And when life gets you down take a little advice from Stewart Smally, You're good enough, you're smart enough and dog on it people like you!
Lynne,
Speaking of perspective…wow. Is your mom now retired? Is she doing the things that she always wanted to do? And yes, would love to rent it out, but the numbers may not add up. That’s something I will need to deal with in a couple of months. Stay tuned!
Katrina,
No worries. Figured you guys would be super busy with the move. Thanks for the kind words. I do think one of the things that I’ve gained (still gaining) as a result of this process is the understanding that no amount of external validation can make up for an empty heart. I sure hope my mom understands that.
Sarah,
Thanks for the encouragement. I sure hope you embark on your own journey soon. Definitely keep in touch and let me know how it turns out. I do think you are on to something. Moms push buttons. That’s what they do. They wouldn’t be real moms if they didn’t. I do think that the way I was raised does put a couple of weird issues into that already complicated mix. Urgg… here is to Stewart Smally!!
Hi, I'm a new reader; came here from hobostripper's blog. I haven't gone back to see where you are headed but I can certainly feel for you having a parent like that. I'm the parent now and I assure you it's tough not to be an asshole. Still, that's not an excuse to be one. Sorry but you seem to have a prime one.
My advice is to just keep on your road, be rude if you absolutely must but it's much better to take the high road. Good luck! I'll be back reading more later.
Don
fouled up,
thanks for the input. Yeah, there has been more resolution to this whole thing recently. And by resolution, I think my mom and I just basically agreed to disagree. I'm expecting some heavy doses of skepticism going forward though. Urgg...
J
Jack...you certainly have the right to live your life the best way you know how, and your mom will still exercise her rights to voice her opinions. Forget about it, that's what being an adult is all about, making your own choices, regardless of what others think or feel about it, even your mother. So feel free Jack to express yourself in anyway you see fit, make your own mistakes, and live. It's your life, and as long as it doesn't infringe upon the rights of others you're free to make your own choices. Don't waste your time being angry at your mom or feeling the need to get her approval, cause you'll probably never get it, so get over it, and get over her, and get on with your life, and take responsibility for your own mistakes and choices, and leave your mom out of it, cause you see Jack, it's really not about her....is it.
nice.. ;-D
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